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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Show me your papers!&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.plunderbund.com/2008/06/05/show-me-your-papers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.plunderbund.com/2008/06/05/show-me-your-papers/</link>
	<description>A Progressive Political Playground</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 03:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.plunderbund.com/2008/06/05/show-me-your-papers/#comment-101099</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plunderbund.com/?p=4027#comment-101099</guid>
		<description>Warrantless, door-to-door searches for drugs and guns are a whole different matter.

That's obviously unconstitutional.

This security zone thing is kind of in a gray area though.  Probably could argue freedom of assembly.

All I was saying is that maybe the people who actually live in these horrible, crime-ridden neighborhoods might appreciate the extra security.

It's kind of like people who live in gated communities having the show their pass to the security guard to get into their neighborhood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warrantless, door-to-door searches for drugs and guns are a whole different matter.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s obviously unconstitutional.</p>
<p>This security zone thing is kind of in a gray area though.  Probably could argue freedom of assembly.</p>
<p>All I was saying is that maybe the people who actually live in these horrible, crime-ridden neighborhoods might appreciate the extra security.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s kind of like people who live in gated communities having the show their pass to the security guard to get into their neighborhood.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.plunderbund.com/2008/06/05/show-me-your-papers/#comment-101098</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plunderbund.com/?p=4027#comment-101098</guid>
		<description>I understand that, Joseph.  But what happened to go ol' "boots on the ground"?  It seems that hiring more cops and getting more patrols in bad areas would help.  Why lock down entire neighborhoods and restrict the movements of good citizens?  What qualifies as a "legitimate reason"?  What would people be arrested &lt;em&gt;for&lt;/em&gt;?

Is "I want to go play Call of Duty 4 split screen with my pal" acceptable?

Even if I buy into the idea that this kind of total lockdown is the only way possible to solve the crime/violence problem, the rules themselves are unacceptably vague.  The Chief of Police has the sole authority necessary to establish a "Neighborhood Safety Zone", based on nebulous "evidence" requirements.

Don't really have a problem with the curfew on minors in Columbus, tho.  It's well established that minors do not have the full rights of citizenship that adults have.  And it's not as if there aren't reasonable exceptions; nor are the kids subject to being hauled off to jail.

The police are there to protect and serve.  Obviously, I support that.  But security has to be balanced with liberty, and this "Neighborhood Safety Zone" business set off a little red flag in my head.  They already tried warrantless door-to-door searches, for crissakes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand that, Joseph.  But what happened to go ol&#8217; &#8220;boots on the ground&#8221;?  It seems that hiring more cops and getting more patrols in bad areas would help.  Why lock down entire neighborhoods and restrict the movements of good citizens?  What qualifies as a &#8220;legitimate reason&#8221;?  What would people be arrested <em>for</em>?</p>
<p>Is &#8220;I want to go play Call of Duty 4 split screen with my pal&#8221; acceptable?</p>
<p>Even if I buy into the idea that this kind of total lockdown is the only way possible to solve the crime/violence problem, the rules themselves are unacceptably vague.  The Chief of Police has the sole authority necessary to establish a &#8220;Neighborhood Safety Zone&#8221;, based on nebulous &#8220;evidence&#8221; requirements.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t really have a problem with the curfew on minors in Columbus, tho.  It&#8217;s well established that minors do not have the full rights of citizenship that adults have.  And it&#8217;s not as if there aren&#8217;t reasonable exceptions; nor are the kids subject to being hauled off to jail.</p>
<p>The police are there to protect and serve.  Obviously, I support that.  But security has to be balanced with liberty, and this &#8220;Neighborhood Safety Zone&#8221; business set off a little red flag in my head.  They already tried warrantless door-to-door searches, for crissakes.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.plunderbund.com/2008/06/05/show-me-your-papers/#comment-101097</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plunderbund.com/?p=4027#comment-101097</guid>
		<description>In related news, Columbus will start enforcing a midnight &lt;a href="http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2008/06/05/curfew_starts.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;curfew&lt;/a&gt; for kids under 18.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In related news, Columbus will start enforcing a midnight <a href="http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2008/06/05/curfew_starts.html" rel="nofollow">curfew</a> for kids under 18.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.plunderbund.com/2008/06/05/show-me-your-papers/#comment-101095</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.plunderbund.com/?p=4027#comment-101095</guid>
		<description>Well- it's a little different given the the Germans pictured above were actually bringing violence instead of trying to stop it.

But I get your point.  It's probably not constitutional and I certainly wouldn't want this kind of police action happening in my neighborhood.

Then again, Clintonville isn't exactly plauged by "out-of-control violence" (neither is Deleware).

If it was, I can imagine I might feel differently.

If I was afraid to leave my house or let my children play outside I might actually welcome the police on to my block.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well- it&#8217;s a little different given the the Germans pictured above were actually bringing violence instead of trying to stop it.</p>
<p>But I get your point.  It&#8217;s probably not constitutional and I certainly wouldn&#8217;t want this kind of police action happening in my neighborhood.</p>
<p>Then again, Clintonville isn&#8217;t exactly plauged by &#8220;out-of-control violence&#8221; (neither is Deleware).</p>
<p>If it was, I can imagine I might feel differently.</p>
<p>If I was afraid to leave my house or let my children play outside I might actually welcome the police on to my block.</p>
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