So the big buzz after last night’s debate appears to be

MSNBC just referred to this guy as “an undecided voter”. Let’s dispense with that claptrap straight away. Joe came into his discussion with Obama a McCain voter. He came in to the debate as a McCain voter. He’s a McCain voter. It’s not hard if you are observant. This guy will be exposed.

Exhibit A

Watch this video:

At :25 Joe says “McCain came across with some solid points and I was real happy about that…”

What undecided voter says that? This guy was looking for McCain to “make some solid points” and he was “real happy about that”. He had an agenda going into the confrontation with Obama. He had prior opinion of how he wanted the debate to go. That much is clear.

Exhibit B

Joe has been on so many right wing talk shows it appears pretty obvious that this is a coordinated attempt to pull a last second “tax and spend” haymaker. Family Security Matters, a wingnut security policy thinktank, has the first interview with Joe after this Obama encounter. Hmmm. What’s the chance that a group like this gets the first interview with this alleged “undecided voter”?

Here’s the kicker though. In that interview Joe says this:

PM: Has there been a lot of media interest in your story? Have you been getting a lot of calls from the media asking you to talk about this?

JW: Neil Cavuto, I was on his show earlier today, just a phone interview for about five minutes. He asked a couple of questions. Then a talk show – Trey Ware – he has a conservative talk show down in San Antonio, Texas – he picked up on it. I’ve had friends call me from all over the nation, saying they heard Rush Limbaugh quote something from me or they’ve heard Hannity quote something. I guess it’s getting quite a bit of play.

What random middle class plumber who is undecided uses the phrase “getting quite a bit of play”? This sounds like stuff politicos I hang out with say or what political analysts might say. Sure doesn’t sound like a random plumber from Toledo.

Exhibit C

This guy’s story doesn’t even add up. His messaging is about as bad as the McCain campaign’s has been. First off, it’s very curious that this new business he wants to buy brings in an amount just above Obama’s $250,000 cutoff. Coincidence? I think not. Also, it should be pointed out and asked of Joe whether that is revenue or net income. If it’s revenue, then he would be making way less than the cutoff. He’d also probably have to buy the business for more like 3-4x that amount. How he has that much cash to buy a plumbing business would be a good question. We know the credit market is such that he would have trouble getting it financed. If it’s actual profit that he would make personally, then he isn’t middle class at all!

Joe can’t have it both ways. He’s either so successful that he makes well more than $250,000 annually, or he should support Obama’s plan because he’ll get more of a tax cut because his income will fall well below the cutoff point.

Watch this one closely. I have a feeling it’s not going to work out so well for Joe or the McCain camp.

Evangelize!
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  • Larry Slagle

    I suspect you are right. It appears his real name is Samuel J. Wurzelbacher. I cannot locate whether he is a registered voter. If he is Samuel(going by Joe is not uncommon if that is his middle name). It would appear that he may work for Newell Plumbing in Toledo.

  • Susan

    I agree something is just not right about this guy! I hope somebody does some deep checking on this guys background…he is a mystery!

  • http://www.osborneink.com Matt Osborne

    We have met the October Surprise, and his name is Joe. Or maybe Samuel.

  • Frank

    Okay guys, Obama is campaigning door to door and the republicans are so good that they know days in advance to brief and place ol’ J the P exactly where Obama will show up? That’s incredible.

    What is sick and pretty darn scary as well is how he’s been attacked and maligned by the media, the democrats, even Obama and Biden themselves. For what? For asking a question?

    Okay, just for arguments sake, let’s say that he is a plant, a republican operative, whatever you want. Please tell me why this reaction to a straight forward question? It was not a trick question. Obama did not struggle with answering it.

    Isn’t the hub bub about Obama’s answer? Of course it is. Obama’s answer revealed something that could be pretty unpopular. The Smear of ol’ Joe was simply to divert attention away from Obama’s straight forward answer. He wants to redistribute wealth.

    Please respond. I’d love a civil discussion about why you disagree with me.

  • http://www.plunderbund.com Eric

    Frank,

    You can make just as good an argument that he isn’t a coordinated plant as you can he is.

    The main thrust of my argument is that there was something odd about the guy. Something didn’t add up.

    Turns out I was right. He may not be a coordinated plant, but he is a fraud. The premise of his question to Obama was a LIE. He was not “getting ready to buy a business”, nor would he be making over $250,000 and see at tax increase. All things he’s now admitted.

    He hasn’t been attacked and maligned as much as exposed. The media was all over this guy loving him at first. Calling him an “undecided voter” even. They got duped and the media no likey being duped. So they fire back. Samuel Joseph created all his own problems. If he would have been authentic he probably would not have been taken apart as much as he was.

    You can also place blame for the media taking him apart to John McCain. If John doesn’t use him as a prop, then dude is probably seen a few times on YouTube and that’s it. John made him a celebrity and part of the campaign by mentioning him in a nationally televised debate.

    So again, it was not a straight forward question. It was meant to “trip him up” as Joe has said. I agree Obama did not struggle answering it and as you’ll notice I posted about the interaction here and that I thought Obama was very impressive doing so.

    Obama answered the question very well and if you listen to the entire answer and not take “spread the wealth” out of context and turn it into some specter of an imminent Socialist takeover of the United States, you’d get a Presidential candidate articulating pretty well why he is doing what he’s doing. His willingness to talk to someone obviously opposing his candidacy is something you simply won’t see form McCain.

    Obama doesn’t want to “redistribute wealth” any more than Bush did or McCain does when they cut top line tax rates for the rich.

    So that’s why I disagree with you. It’s not sick at all that the media look into someone trying to trip up a Presidential candidate based upon false pretenses. It’s also fair that since Joe’s arguments are based on paying higher taxes that we expose he can’t even seem to pay the taxes he owes now.

    Wurzelbacher is a fraud and has been exposed as such. If you are gonna step up and inject yourself into Presidential politics, you better be ready to play the game. In this case, Joe could argue that McCain put him in this position. It’s odd I’m not hearing this argument though.

    Maybe he is a plant? Didn’t I see him on TV with Huckabee? Odd way to react if you just are some regular guy who wants to ask an innocent question and be left alone.

  • http://www.plunderbund.com Eric

    @4: Also Frank. I pretty much know everywhere in Ohio McCain will be next week – or any week – so pulling something off like this is certainly not a stretch.

  • Frank

    Thank you Eric for the civil response. I disagree on the not being attacked. He has been ridiculed by Obama when he mocked him by saying “How many plumbers do you know that make a $250,000.” Plumbing businesses certainly can and that was the context of the question.

    I have seen many examples of him being ridiculed. And to call him a fraud really needs backing up. What if his question was based upon his dream to buy the business? Is the question really out of line?
    It was a fair question.

    I do not believe that there has been any evidence that he was a fraud or a plant. The media tried to paint him a fraud to weaken the strength of his question. To divert from Obama’s words.

    None the less, I can’t ever recall a private citizen taken to task and treated the way he was by the media or even a candidate.

    What message does that send any private citizen that wants to confront a politician?

    As far as Huckabee, this guy has been thrust into the limelight and has been smeared. I’d tend to the same thing. Actually, I’d do a lot more. I’d be very angry for eing treated that way by a public servant.

    Thanks again Eric. Looks like we fundamentally disagree and will not change each others points of view.

  • http://plunderbund.com Joseph

    “What message does that send any private citizen that wants to confront a politician?”

    I guess it is a warning to people not to let John McCain use your name during a nationally televised debate viewed by almost 60 million people.

  • http://www.plunderbund.com Eric

    @7: No problem, Frank. I appreciate the tone with which you began this. That helps. I tend to be bombastic mostly because of the nature of blogging and also because I honestly feel I’m fighting to regain the country I was taught we were. The way in which Bush has run this country into the ground gets the blood boiling.

    But you are right. We fundamentally disagree and may never see this the same. I don’t think Obama was ridiculing Joe as much as he was McCain who was using Joe to make a point. A point which did not stand on it’s face. Joe did not at the time – nor anytime in the near future – make $250,000. He even admitted to a reporter later – sheepishly – that he’d actually get a TAX CUT under the Obama plan.

    He is a fraud because, again, the premise upon which his question rested was a LIE. He WAS NOT getting ready to buy a business. The business more than likely DID NOT profit more than $250,000. It is a two man plumbing operation according to reports.

    He did not base the question on a hypothetical. That’s the difference. However, Obama answered it and I don’t see it as fundamentally an unfair question on face. But when you begin to hear Joe talk of “tripping him up” and then realize he was not shooting straight – this is when I begin to call him a fraud.

    Again, the media took him to task because they got duped into calling him an “undecided voter”, which he most certainly was not. They got duped into buying this line of him buying a business and getting his taxes raised.

    The man to put squarely in your path of blame for making Joe a target is John McCain. Nobody would have ever known this guy’s name if John hadn’t tried to leverage him in a debate – and afterwards. Don’t blame Obama for simply having a 6 minute conversation with a voter who was never going to support him. This speaks to the difference between the two candidates more than I could.

    Thanks for stopping by and for engaging. I appreciate your thoughts, but do fundamentally disagree with you concerning this “Joe the Plumber” thing.

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