More on the 2007 incident in Iraq

Shalom Brian,

This is war.

Those who fight are never truly the same again and those who do not fight are mistrustful and more than a bit afraid of those who do.

In recent years Americans have made a great show of thanking veterans for their service, but those who do so, and who have not experienced war, are mouthing empty words in a verbal bit of flag waving.

General William Tecumseh Sherman knew well of that which he spoke.

B'shalom,

Jeff

I agree with everything you say, mvirenicus. I know a guy who couldn't wait to get to Iraq so he could kill people.

YOU do not know what you are talking about. “I can’t imagine how the helicopter crew saw AKs and RPGs” Really can’t you? How many helicopters have you flown? Your most likely an Ohio State fan that likes to armchair quarterback. THE VIDEO IS IS IN LOW DEFINITION B&W. Pilots see in High Def, 3D, COLOR…kind of like in REAL LIFE. In the video at 3 minutes 45 seconds there are clearly 2 individuals. One with an AK-47 and one with an Russian RPG. RPG’s are no threat to Helicopters, they are a threat to “Brads” the pilots mention. Those would be Bradley Fighting vehicles. Sadly the guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but that is what you can expect when you fraternize enemy. Sometimes you guys make me ashamed to be a Democrat.

Shalom Mvirenicus,

War changes everything. Combat is not civilized. It's rage and terror and pissing your pants blowing the fuck out of some poor fucker's face who's screaming for his mommy as he dies. You cannot be in the shit and not be changed.

There are no flags waving and bugles sounding. The CO does not get to blare Wagner as the napalm burns the skin off the other.

Maybe if we made high school students watch hours and hours of combat footage the way we used to watch those bloody car crash movies in driver's ed. we would have a lot fewer people volunteering to be an Army of one.

Maybe if we had a universal draft and everyone's child had an even chance of coming back in a body bag or missing limbs we'd have people pissed that we'd changed their family forever.

There are no innocents in this. Just as every American played a role in the creating the rage that resulted in 11 September, so to do we all bear the guilt for the system that created the men involved in this attack.

This is not a matter of rotten apples in a barrel. The barrel itself is rotten and must be incinerated.

B'shalom,

Jeff

Shalom Mary Jo,

We cannot expiate our guilt by condemning those who do what we ask of them.

B'shalom,

Jeff

I always enjoy being reminded of the ways we're on the same page, Jeff.

I think what you said also applies just as aptly to the Catholic Church and its response to it the rape and torture of its own children.

Shalom Adam,

Excuse my dense head (I'm fighting a spring cold at the moment) but I'm not understanding your point.

B'shalom,

Jeff

Dion,

Please read more closely. *I* did not see weapons. I did not doubt that the guys in the helicopter believed they saw the items (and, in fact, I have seen some zoomed in and slowed down video that shows what appears to be weapons that I could not make out in the original video).

RPGs are very definitely bad news for helicopters (have you forgotten Somalia?), as they are for Bradleys. I've since seen a photo showing a picture from one of the photogs cameras that shows how close the Bradleys were (pretty close), which is something that is not clear in the video.

Either way – whether the pilots saw weapons, or mistakenly believe they did – I said before and I hold now that the air crew are blameless. My beef is with the fact that our media so sanitizes the war that people have no idea of what really happens, and so ignore it that people forget this is even going on.

For the record, while my actual service stops with AFROTC in college (I left because, at the time, my slight near-sightedness disqualified me from being a pilot), most of my life has had a relatively close association with the military. My grandfather served in WWII, my father won an appointment to West Point in the 60s (and after medically disqualifying for service, worked his entire career as a civil employee of the USAF), and I have worked as a contractor on USAF, USArmy, and USN projects. I have also come very close to serving as a soldier on multiple occasions after walking away from ROTC in college, most recently last year.

Trust me, I'm not one for taking pot-shots at soldiers.

i don't have any guilt. i've been an outspoken critic of capitalism, american government and the society that sustains them since my early 20s. i bear no guilt. those who mealy-mouth around the reality that stares them in the face do, and yes that most definitely includes liberals.

Shalom Adam,

I tried to leave the following comment on your blog, but it didn't seem to take.

Thank you for the link.

I cannot help but draw a comparison between Pope Benedict and President Nixon during Watergate.

Every day that he remains pope only does more damage to the Catholic Church. At some point the Pope must come to grips with this and resign.

Shalom Mvirenicus,

That's true, you're absolutely correct. It is the people who have no wish to see the brutality of war and, for a number of reasons, choose to not do so that I'm concerned about.

B'shalom,

Jeff

Dear People, my comments have not referred to the initial attack. The soldiers saw men with weapons and did what they were supposed to do. I am referring to their second attack. The people in the van were not armed and they were trying to rescue a dying photographer. But they were shot dead and the children were injured. The soldiers showed no remorse when they realized they had hurt kids.